- October 24, 2013 at 2:09 pm #111275
- October 25, 2013 at 7:57 am #111344
I like it also but I am wondering if it would not “work” better in B&W. Since the main subject is all black the background texture without color might make it more interesting.
- October 25, 2013 at 8:13 am #111349
I will try as I know that you are a BW freak but I like the fact that it’s quite monochrome. In the original the subjects are dark brown not black, I’ll check the jpeg.
Puppet warp is a great tool.
- October 25, 2013 at 8:18 am #111350
The only reason I suggested B&W is that the color stone background brings nothing to the image does it? To be honest I think it is very creative considering what you have said in other posts about your environment. I have speculated in my mind where that might be. My guess is, perhaps, north Africa.
- October 25, 2013 at 8:50 am #111351
I changed the color version (a little better jpeg) but here is the link on .
And I still prefer it to the BW version :
Too flat : no whites.
It was taken at the train station an half hour bus away from home. It’s a conventional toilets sign slightly modified.
In North Africa I think there would be a large red bar across.
- October 25, 2013 at 8:51 am #111352
Sorry forgot to close the link tag.
- October 25, 2013 at 9:07 am #111353
I suppose you are correct. It is flat and the little bit of color does help. Anyway, I do think it is a creative image.
- October 25, 2013 at 2:34 pm #111365
Of course it ‘works’ . It’s a photo of a door sign, although it’s a bit hard to tell if it’s a door or something you photoshopped.
Why would you put this in the shark tank? Surely you had something in mind when you took the shot and you either achieved that or you didn’t. Why do you need us to tell you if you did or not.
It’s not the photo that needs work, it’s your idea. Listen to the voice in your head, to the story your telling yourself and capture that.
I reckon if you went back there and took another look you’d see that it wasn’t just the sign but the context in which the sign was located.
C’mon, @pmarione, give your head a chance. Step back and get some good ideas. Stop worrying about photographing the object and start photographing the subject. The subject is your ideas. Give us a good idea that we can “get”.
- October 25, 2013 at 4:10 pm #111369
Problem is not if it works in my head : that I know (I wouldn’t put here a picture that I don’t like, I would just trash with the hundreds of other that I trash).
My problem is : does it works for other people, is it interesting for other people. I am old and proficient enough to know when a pic is technically ok, but I don’t do pics for myself otherwise I can do them in my head, no need for a camera.
That’s why I need feedback (family and friends will just say nice without even look at it) and why I like this forum because you can have opinion from all over the world.
Flickr stats are worth what they are worth but I can see that pictures that I thought were interesting have no success at all while others succeed.
I see this forum at two levels, one for people who are not to well experienced and need technical advice, and one for people more “experienced” who need feedback. If it’s not the case I will never post a picture again.
- October 25, 2013 at 6:01 pm #111384
- October 25, 2013 at 6:24 pm #111388
That’s my opinion too.
Feedback is very important when you have worked some hours on a picture.
And in fact if I think about it I do pics with my guts not with my head or I would do illustrations…
- October 25, 2013 at 7:06 pm #111391
Hi Patrick @pmarione.
Ok, so you want feedback. Here it is.
People will generally become absorbed in a photo if there is something in it for them. If you had 10 people in a room looking at this shot on the wall, chances are you’d have 9 of them not giving it a second glance and the 10th looking for the door to the parlour. Even if you posted a questionnaire for the other nine to respond to, you’d still get at least 9 different responses.
Consider this as a guide to your head ( you digest food with your gut, you have ideas with your head):
Is it a good idea?
Have I achieved my purpose?
Was it worth doing?
Who needs to see it?
What would I expect others to gain from it?
If you want to be creative try these options:
Is the photo relevant and effective?
Is there any originality demonstrated?
Do I need to consider the aesthetics and if so have I done so?
Is this a new perspective on an old idea?
You know, Patrick, you can draw as well as take photos. The same questions arise either way.
As for photographing for other people, you’re going to be continually disappointed. They’re a weird bunch, other people. They never see the point the way you’d like them to.
In addition, consider this
What if, every time you posed a picture I popped up my ugly head and told you it was rubbish and you should consider drawing as a hobby? What would you do then? Tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about and go on your merry way? Possibly find a sharp implement and take it on yourself to end it all? Or come and find me and end my all?
There are many ways of making recommendations to people when ‘criticizing’ their photos. Most people here will tell you what they would do. I’m suggesting some things that you might do. All of that is in your head.
Come up with some good ideas. If you don’t, you’ll continue to judge your work by what other people say.
You have some great ideas on your web site. There are many shots there that are original, aesthetically pleasing and interesting. Show us some of those. Don’t ask us what we think. We’ll tell you if we want.
The fact that only one or two people have looked at this shot and bothered to comment must tell you something. Do you think?
- October 26, 2013 at 9:38 am #111423
I like the color version. The stick figures would not get a second glance from me if they weren’t holding hands. The hand holding gets me wondering and holds my attention for a bit. Does it have some significance in Belgium that I don’t understand as I am from N. America? My only criticism is that I think the watermark should be bigger… and bolder ‘-)
- October 26, 2013 at 10:52 am #111431
It’s only fifty years that I take photographies (I started with a Kodak box with two options : sunlight and shadow) so when I make a good pic I don’t think, I know.
What I can’t know if I don’t ask, is if the pic has some interest for others.
Originally that pic is without the least interest : just a toilet sign on an interesting wall that I tried to convert in a pictorial joke. The picture has no aesthetic interest at all, just the subject. I just found funny to have those little people which live forever alone alongside having an affair and going out in the sunset.
As for all pictures it woks for some and not for others: not everybody has a sense of humour and takes thinks at first degree. Belgium was the cradle of surrealism…
For the interest that a pic can have or not, I find the stats of Flickr very interesting : you can be seen by millions of people from all over the world. In the absolute it has no value as there are too many parameters that can explain why a pic has 1.000.000 views and another 3. But in a relative way it allows to check which of you own pics interest people or not, and I have far more people viewing my pics that I would ever have if I make an exhibition.
From my (small) experience I can extract some interesting facts :
– there is the same interest for BW than for color.
– the aesthetic has far less importance than the subject. Maybe I am wrong here has I don’t do much landscapes and absolutely no cats (horrible parasites) or flowers.
– pictures with people interest more people than pictures with nice monuments.
– pictures which tell a story interest more people : they like a lot frightening pics taken in cemeteries or grunge stuff.
– they also like intriguing pics (like my little brown people) but maybe it’s just because they have to check the bigger size to understand.
and finally if you want an absolute winner make some sexy stuff, it always works.
So to answer @tomdinning, my friend, I believe that you are wide of the mark. You just didn’t understand the pic and all your psychobabble is just what it is : psychobabble.
You could have just say : I don’t like your pic.
- October 26, 2013 at 11:10 am #111433
Guys for what it is worth, my attention span is too short to read all of this. AND I agree with @pmarione (I usually do) that terse, to the point critique is what is needed. This is not a philosophical forum where we argue the merits of content vs culture or any other bs you may want to interject here.
- October 26, 2013 at 11:11 am #111434
I forgot another category besides landscapes and sunset (always working well) is abstract symmetry and colors: people are attracted by vivid colors and abstractions like buildings.
This is only based on my pictures and there is certainly a lot of other fields that are of interest.
I can’t resist to put a link to the album of this Indonesian photographer that I find incredible.
- October 26, 2013 at 11:17 am #111436
Wow I have to agree!! What wonderful photos. And I don’t like pics of birds. I have never seen such perfect bokeh in my life. Wonderful photography!!!
- October 26, 2013 at 11:44 am #111438
- October 26, 2013 at 12:31 pm #111440
- October 26, 2013 at 12:36 pm #111441
Perhaps the watermark is just a bit over the top. Not to be too critical. All things considered, there have been a few pics posted by others where this watermark would have added some value or interest. Just saying…
- October 26, 2013 at 2:03 pm #111448
Pics from Klyngons ? 🙂
- October 26, 2013 at 3:09 pm #111454
Now we are picking which critiques are in and which are not, based on the approval of @nikon-nut. Go stick you head further up your arse, @nikon-nut. I can bite as well. Just because you haven’t got the capacity to read it because it has words with more than one syllable certainly doesn’t make it more or less valid that your grunts.
Was that blunt enough for you?
- October 26, 2013 at 3:29 pm #111457caimiParticipant
I too am not sure why you’re asking if it works , marione. Whether it works or not is up to you if you are asking , “Do you like it?”, which it sounds like you are, then you are seeking validation for what you thought was a great idea.
You comment about taking pictures in your head is interesting. But I think most people take pictures both for themselves and for others. They all start in your head but they don’t stay ther at least partly because we want them tobe seen.
Now, I have to ask you, does it work? Does it fulfill the idea you had when it was just in your head?
- October 26, 2013 at 4:07 pm #111460
That it did or I wouldn’t have shown it, my question is “has it any interest for other people” and specially people who have some expertise and to that question I can’t answer alone.
- October 26, 2013 at 4:46 pm #111466
- October 26, 2013 at 8:50 pm #111475
So was mine, John, @nikon-nut. Just a different sort of tongue based on different social backgrounds. Oz tongues tend to be a bit more earthy and direct.
Not only is @pmarione selective about which photos he shows, he’s very selective about which people he takes advice from and what that advice might be. He wants someone with some expertise yet he has no way of knowing who that might be. For all he knows you might be a person of interest to the FBI and I might be second in line to the papalsy.
Speak more of your tongue to me. I’m listening. Just be warned. I do speak with a forked tongue.
- October 26, 2013 at 9:28 pm #111478
It’s interesting that @pmarione has uncovered, quite incidentally, the root of the problem with photography and the internet.
No longer do we decide for ourselves what we like or dislike. Even he would remember the days when he would process a roll of tri-x and look through the contact sheet for something he liked and considered worth printing. Then, after painstakingly printing and framing his favorite shot from the day, rush to the vacant spot on the wall and proudly hang it for his family and friends to admire.
Now the whole world must witness and place value on what he does. As if they really care! Let’s take an average hit count on an average photo from Flickr. Of the 90 million odd members, he gets, on a good day, let’s say 20 hits accompanied with the appropriate ‘like’. Now I’m assuming none of them are friends or family and all have some expertise in the field of aesthetics, sociology, psychology and photography in general so that he might get a candid and valuable critique of his efforts.
On my figuring that would be a smaller percentage than all of my relatives and friends visiting, eating my food, drinking my grog and commenting, while they were still sober, on my lovely photo of the dunny door.
Strangely enough I wouldn’t ask for their qualifications either but I would thank them non the less.
Now, while everyone is standing around admiring the aforementioned photo, in comes the relative from hell. He’s been a professional photographer for 50 years, taught photographic composition to thousands of students from secondary to tertiary institutions, and puts on a pretty good show when it comes to taking photograph. No one is game to ask him what he thinks of the photo in question but he gives his opinion anyway. He’s that sort of bloke.
“What the fuck is that?” He demands. “Has someone cut a new funny door through to the living room?”
“Actually, uncle, it’s a photo I took. What do you think?”
” you took that, right! On purpose, right! And you hung it for us to look at, right! What the fuck for?”
” I thought you might give me an appraisal, some assistance, advice and approval”
” Yeah, right! Where’s the fridge. I’ll need a drink first. Then another one second and even third and forth maybe. I don’t want to be sober when I say what I’m about to say”
” I can take it. After all, I posted in in The Shark Tank and they liked it and I got 20 hits on Flickr”
” oh, well, you don’t need my advice , do you?”
” I value your expertise”
“No you don’t. You’re sucking up so I don’t cut you out of the will”
” well, that too, but I’ll take whatever you say on the chin”
” OK. Here it is. Is this the culmination of 50 years of photography for you? Is that it? You can’t come up with something more original than to show me what you found on a dunny door. I think I’ll cut you out of the will anyway, just for wasting my failing eye sight. Here’s the suggestion. Sell your cameras and take up gardening. Grow something you can eat. At least you might get something of value from it. If you walk around all day thinking of shit like this your wasting precious oxygen. If you really want people to think about your photos and have some meaning to them, do something meaningful. Not everyone is as thick as the 20 people that hit you on flickr. Some of us want a bit more meat in our sandwich. Now, don’t waste anymore of my time. Get me another drink.”
[back in the living room after everyone has left]
” what did uncle think of your picture @pmarione?”
” I think he liked it”
- October 27, 2013 at 4:39 am #111507
@timdinning, much of what you have said may be true but I feel that some of your language is totally inappropriate for this forum. Not offensive to me personally, just inappropriate for this forum. Not that I am a prude as I use the exact same salty language several times a day when referring to politicians and other parasites. In polite society (and the Shark Tank is amazingly polite when you consider what we do here) there is a time and place for certain things and I don’t feel that the Shark Tank is the time or place for the type of language you have used here. You have demonstrated that you have an excellent command of English and a more that adequate vocabulary so why not use it and leave out the expletives?
- October 27, 2013 at 6:10 am #111521
Why does it take you 664 words just to say “your pic is just shit” ?
Maybe before writing you should learn to read.
I just downloaded your autobiography – I stopped to read at page 11 – and asked myself “what is he saying ?”, “has it any interest to somebody on this earth ?”. I’ll keep the answer to myself.
Of all the “philosophie de comptoir” that precede I understand – I don’t doubt that you’ll correct me in 163 pages I am wrong – you make pictures to get the blissful attention of your near relatives because you received some divine grace in your youth : speaking the absolute truth.
Stop making photography, just start a new sect, or even better do the absolute photography, the one that will end in the living room of every family of the univers, kill all the others pictures and make you richer than Trump.
But first you’ll have to read “Statistics For Dummies” (ISBN: 978-0470911082), specially the chapter about sampling.
It doesn’t have the least importance of who looks at your pictures on Flickr, or their span of attention, or their social, political, geographic background. If you compare the stats of your own pictures it gives you a good indication of the relative (level of significance is the exact term) of one picture vs the others.
If you spit on the interest of internet why do you keep the most boring blog of the web ? Is it not enough to bore your relatives and students ?
And I don’t give a shit if somebody here is the most wanted felon of Oz or a cousin of Bin Laden if he gives me something to think about my picture (which you are not).
- October 27, 2013 at 1:28 pm #111571
- October 27, 2013 at 1:34 pm #111575
That’s clearly the final argument : gnagnagna
- October 27, 2013 at 4:33 pm #111600VeronikaParticipant
When I see something like this I think of it asdocumenting someone else’s work. There’s no creativity on your part, except, I guess, till you made it B&W.
If you were the creator of the original piece, the figures on the brown (stone or wood?) surface, what would you think of this?
Who is the artist/creator here?
- October 27, 2013 at 5:22 pm #111610
Clearly me : have you ever seen works of dadaists or surrealists (Duchamp, Mariën, Ernst) ?
Did Warhol design the Campbel’s soup label ?
Ceci n’est pas une pipe !
I have just diverted the trivial sign to tell another story. It’s simply a not very sophisticated visual prank, no more.
Thence my question : does it work ? Clearly not for everybody.
- October 27, 2013 at 5:33 pm #111611
I have said before that I think this shows creativity. If you had a showing of street photography this might be included. It is streetwise if anything. It is not something that takes your breath away but its not bad. I think it is cute. Depending on your room decor you might think of including this. I have a picture of a one way sigh with arrow heads on both ends. It was on a t junction here in town many years ago.
- October 27, 2013 at 6:43 pm #111617
I suppose that if I had done this one I would have been burned or stoned with old negatives.
L.H.O.O.Q is a pun for “elle a chaud au cul” meaning “she is hot in the arse”.
Strangely it’s in the Musée National d’Art Moderne, Centre Georges Pompidou, Paris, and probably worth a lot of money.
- October 27, 2013 at 7:41 pm #111619
You have to be joking, right?
You, the artist! I don’t think so. Lets see if its around in a few years. Don’t even place yourself on the same page as those you speak of. That’s egotistical blasphemy. No, you didn’t divert anything to tell another story otherwise we might have got it.
- October 27, 2013 at 8:06 pm #111620
Prenez garde aux humeurs péquantes, la camomille peut vous aider, mon pauvre ami.
From what I see on your blog, I think that you are the guru here not me.
I don’t try to give lessons to anyone, I just show a picture that I like to see if other people find it of interest.
All I get is nonsense about creativity, illuminated psychobabble or stories to tell to children who don’t want to go to bed, with no answer to my question.
Don’t worry I have not the least ambition of being an artist, I just have fun taking pictures and have them shared with other people.
I will not write my autobiography or expose my cathartic experiences, I am a simple man and live a simple life, and my pictures will die with me… But I don’t authorize you to judge them.
- October 27, 2013 at 8:17 pm #111621
In fact you have just decided me : I’ll have 10.000 postcards printed and I’ll send you one every year for my birthday, and sale the others at 30 cents apiece at the Magritte museum.
- October 28, 2013 at 4:10 am #111654Dwaine GipeParticipant
This is an amazing verbal sampling of the period maybe of more historical value than the images I have yet to see or the criticism I have yet to experience. ROGLMFAO
- October 28, 2013 at 5:56 am #111657
- October 28, 2013 at 7:33 am #111665Guy HousewrightParticipant
i like the idea of the shot but it looks crooked to me and i would have cropped out the wall on the right side. i do like the BW version as it adds some ‘texture’ in my opinion.
- October 28, 2013 at 9:47 am #111671Martin DavisParticipant
It works for me.
Could it be improved?
My eye is drawn by the piece of wood on the right.
I have copied your original and cropped it, putting the images on ‘thirds’.
Is it better?
Being new to Light Stalking forums I am feeling my way and making faux pars as I go. Sorry about that. The only way I could get a link to the revised picture is by posting it in my area and then getting a link. Maybe there is another way?
- October 29, 2013 at 8:51 am #111762
- October 29, 2013 at 10:29 am #111767
Cats and flowers are less controversial… 🙂
At least it had a result : I’ll have it published.
Just for the fun here are some others postcards on sale at Magritte Museum and in Beaubourg :
translate as “your wife is cheating on me”.
All by known Belgian artists.
- October 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm #111906
- October 30, 2013 at 3:39 pm #111908
LOL. But it’s clearly an improvement on the original. Will let it known to the artists, he probably will agree with you but will have problem to sale it in public places.
- October 30, 2013 at 5:22 pm #111924
My favoured is the anonymous letter.
André Stas makes incredible collages, try to google his name.
- October 30, 2013 at 9:42 pm #111933RaviParticipant
I just noticed in your post that David’s nuts (or avocados?) have grown bigger. LOL. 😀
- October 31, 2013 at 8:36 am #111959
- October 31, 2013 at 11:15 am #111982
I’ll go back there and do it again as it’s not perfectly on focus.
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