I appreciate what you all do here on this forum.

[r1ch]

So I was reading Phil Watts post Self Centered Photography and about waning and waxing interest. I too have been gone about 6 months. JasenkaG informed me I my portrait image was chosen for photo of the week. So I thought she liked it encouraged me to focus more on portrait.

I was interested portraiture  before but trying to find people to shoot was impossible but on meetup.com a lot of portrait groups would bringing in models into their groups for photographers to shoot. Meetups either public areas for free or in studios that we collectively paid for, in other words dirt cheap.

So then I decided to  joined another internet group that focused on improving your skills in portrait. The moderator of that group was a pro who had sections on the site for photo sharing which no critical comments only kind words. We were not allowed to ask for critique or use any of that negative terminology. There was an image help section where the moderator gave such scathing reviews that people quit posting there.  The moderator would say things like, what were you thinking?, who would shoot this?, then if the person posted a good image, the moderator would say,” why did you post this if you did not need help. Are you posting this for people to tell you how good your images are? “I don’t care about your images” was a common phrase the moderator would use in live meetings and in posts. I asked in a live zoom meeting (where you had to have and active mic and video feed or you were kicked out) Is it useful to use an onscreen histogram while shooting or using a historgram in general when you chimp? My answer was “There is always someone like you in every meeting” then began telling me histograms are useless.  I never asked another questions and never posted and image for review because nothing good could come of it. The moderator had a teaching style that flew in the face of conventional wisdom. There are no such thing as rules, do not follow them or it will end your creativity. You could not quote a rule if you were talking about someones image. Do not use a light meter for portrait. The moderator called out other internet professionals saying they don’t know what they are doing and don’t wast time watching their videos only watch the moderators videos. The moderator called out people by name like youtuber Manny Ortiz and some others.   Everyone was afraid. So I asked the moderator to consider a list of  things that were taught that flew in the face of conventional photography wisdom or teaching. I was told  I was wasting time, I was high maintenance, “shut up” and if I didn’t want to shut up I could leave the group. And that is what I did.

And now I am back, So to reiterate. I appreciate the work all of you do here.

[Robert Apple]

I think I’ve met that guy,  Last year at a college photography expo, I nearly had him in tears and I think fearing for his life when I was asked to leave.

[r1ch]

Well Robert, I don’t wish anything bad on the moderator but I would not wish the moderator on my enemies. While having controversial teaching is fine, being undeserving disrespectful is not

[Robert Apple]

I see people like that as bullies, something I have never had a tolerance for. The fellow I mentioned was a guest  judge, a college prof from West Virginia,  berating a exhibit of  work by junior high students, some of whom were there and after that treatment may have given up photography completely. It’s what helped spur me on to teach a 4H class, where I borrow from our Shark Tank rules and encourage them to constructively critique each other as well as myself.  Admittedly I wasn’t very nice to the pompous ass,  but given the chance to do it over, I may have been harder on him.

 

[Patrick]

bullies, something I have never had a tolerance for

You nailed it , I have always been that way as well from kid right through to adulthood i had to deal with plenty of them Robert

[Jeff Anderson]

I despise those types of people.

Yes, I capture some garbage (most of it, tbf), but once in a while I’ll get a good one.

WTH are these types of forums if not to help amateurs and pros alike?

[r1ch]

I would find my story hard to believe but there are people out there who are like that in photography.

[Patrick]

Sorry to hear how things worked out for you on that one , some people just like the sound of their own voice , The winning POTW you mentioned from a while back .. I remember it and was very very impressed with it myself ( admittedly i know very little about portrait work ) but Jasenka does and if she liked it then i would say take that as a great compliment and i would stick with the portrait work because as i said i thought your POTW was a cracking frame and you obviously like it enough that you made a big effort to seek out a way of honing those skills , Fair play to you 🙂

[r1ch]

Hey Patrick. I am going to stick with it. I have 2 shoots with models this weekend. One is indoors the other is outside. I just hope it doesn’t snow. Today the high was 32 degrees F. Sat is supposed to be 43 so they may cancel the outdoor one.

[JasenkaG]

@r1ch I also know such people – I have a few colleagues here in Belgrade who behave similarly. It’s just toxic. The best thing is to ignore them. Don’t waste your time on anyone evil, stupid, frustrated, and so on. Successful photographers who are happy with their work (and life!) and have a good network of colleagues and clients make the best critics.

[r1ch]

I agree @jasenkag best to steer clear of them.

 

[Rob Wood (Admin)]

I think we have all met folks like that. Yeah, there are a few in the industry. I suppose some people react well to that type of feedback, but I know that I am definitely not one of them.

I also know that I just don’t like drama, and neither do any of the regulars here. So I guess that’s why everyone here kinda gels with each other.

And that’s just fine with me. 😉

[r1ch]

Well when people stop putting in their images for critique, then that tells you something. I remember some teachers were like that, trying to use negativity or embarrassment as motivation.  Not for me so it was time to move on.

[Michael]

There are toxic people like that in every aspect of life. They are generally unhappy people. Life is just too short to have to put up with a toxic person. Best to move on and enjoy your life, your family and your interests if you can.

[Federico Alegria]

Thanks for sharing your story mate, and it really encourages us to keep developing our Light Stalking culture which aims to share every bit of knowledge we can so photography in general develop forwards. As an educator myself, it really bothers me when “experts” and “pros” take the pedagogic lead. Teaching is sharing, and sharing is caring; in a nutshell, it requires patience and vocation. Keep on sharing your stuff, and thanks again for your words.

[Frank]

I belong to a web group that deals mostly with photoshop lessons, but the moderator chooses about 8 photos every two weeks or so to critique.  Almost always I find excellent images and that is just the way the moderator starts his critiques with praise.  Then he adds his suggestion usually about composition and color enhancements.  Almost always he does improve the image, but he always ends one a positive note, and emphasises that his changes are just his suggestions.  One thing he constantly does is to bring more attention on the subject through subtle dodging and burning bring light onto the subject.  One one of his lessons he introduced example from famous paintings and how the artists used light.

[r1ch]

When someone starts criticizing other instructors methods and teaching styles in a derogatory way, then that is a good clue Houston, we have a problem.  I look at an instructors images. If I find them to be noteworthy, I want to learn how they do it and the process involved. Then use that info and put it into practice. Sounds like you found a good group. In photography, I find half the battle is editing, getting the image is the other half.

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