Photography Forums › General Photo Chit Chat › Luck or skill?
- This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 1y, 11mo ago by
Kenneth Wong.
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June 17, 2024 at 12:22 pm #526455
About a month-and-a-half ago, @federicoalegria selected one of my pictures as POTW:
In his explanation for making the selection, Federico stated, “this is a great example of how accurate is to mention luck when capturing candid moments around us.”
Although I probably would have agreed strongly with this statement when I was starting out nearly 40 years ago, today I find it odd for an educator to stress the importance of luck in the photographic process.
Why?
In a word: accountability.
It’s easy to place the responsibility for our failures on things which are external to ourselves rather than take ownership of them. “Luck” is a common excuse in photography. Equipment is another.
When I hear someone talk about being “unlucky” or in this case, the importance of “luck” I ask myself this question: “Is it ‘luck’ that some photographers consistently produce great images?”
The answer I always come to is NO. The photographers I see consistently producing great pictures are always busy doing lots of research, getting to know their subjects, developing their skills or doing other activities to better prepare themselves for the situations they’re likely to encounter. Sometimes these activities have nothing to do with photography, such as going to the gym so that they can get themselves into better physical condition.
I was reminded of this when I was out making pictures of bobcats this weekend. I rarely see bobcats where I live, and this weekend, I was able to find not one, but two different cats on consecutive days. This isn’t something I’ve ever had happen before, not even when I frequented a park that’s know for its bobcat population.
What made these encounters even more unusual what that I was able to spend nearly an hour with one cat and about a half-hour with the second. The majority of bobcat encounters I have last just a few minutes, as the animals tend to be very shy and reclusive.
Here are a few of my favorite pictures from the encounters:
Prior to this weekend I’d done some research into bobcat sightings in the area and had walked the trail more than a half-dozen times to get familiar with the territory. Back in December, I photographed a bobcat on this trail (it was probably one of the cats I photographed this weekend) and made note of the location on the trail and the time that I saw the cat. I’ve been going back to this location frequently over the past couple of months at the same time of day. Animals are often creatures of habit.
Some other important information about the events to keep in mind is that I work with 20-30 lbs. of equipment, which includes two camera bodies, a primary lens which is 8.5 lbs. or another which weighs in at 11.2 lbs., an 80-400mm zoom lens and monopod which has a gimble arm attached. I carry a wide-angle lens, a small shoe mount flash, an incident light meter and various accessories and a half-liter of Gatorade in a Newswear chestvest. The terrain is semi-rugged, with some steep hills, lots of brush and some thorny bushes. For me, a typical visit to this trail involves three-to-four miles of moderate-paced hiking.
On both days, I did over three miles of hiking, one in which I had to move quickly to get ahead of the cat, which was walking in a fire break that runs parallel to the trail and move myself to a position above the animal.
So was it pure luck that I had the opportunity to make these bobcat pictures?
It’s my belief that luck is a factor maybe 10-20% of the time. The rest is our responsibility.
What are your thoughts?
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June 19, 2024 at 1:29 pm #526536
Federico AlegriaParticipant- https://www.instagram.com/federico.alegria/
- Allows Edits: Yes
@federicoalegria- Posts:2743
Allows Edits? YesBeyond an educator, I’m also a scientist, so I do know a thing or two about research… However, it would be naive for me to leave luck behind in any endeavour, or if you prefer “well-favoured conditions that appear in a serendipitous manner”; which gives a better fit of what I understand from “luck”. Something which is better illustrated when one captures something unexpected, and should be treated on a different level from shot to shot. My apologies, but you are developing your argument based on two dissimilar images.
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June 19, 2024 at 3:05 pm #526546
bethParticipant- https://www.instagram.com/naught.figs/
- Allows Edits: No
@loki- Posts:3427
Allows Edits? Noi like to plan ahead for locations. but luck does play into it a bit. i’ve hit the same wildlife refuge every day, learned the habits and most likely locations of the animals. one day i might come away with a full card, other days, nada.
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June 19, 2024 at 5:02 pm #526552
I would be lost without Luck to be fair , I agree with Federico’s observation based on these two dissimilar images.
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June 21, 2024 at 12:50 pm #526598
Federico AlegriaParticipant- https://www.instagram.com/federico.alegria/
- Allows Edits: Yes
@federicoalegria- Posts:2743
Allows Edits? Yes☘️
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June 19, 2024 at 7:19 pm #526554
I think it’s important to understand that I’m not saying luck doesn’t exist, which is why I said, “It’s my belief that luck is a factor maybe 10-20% of the time. The rest is our responsibility.”
I’m not sure why the type of picture matters, because events are events whether they’re news, wildlife, landscape (which is heavily dependent on weather), etc. A good photographer has the ability to create pictures on whatever situation they encounter.
I shared the news picture as a reference to Federico’s comment and the bobcat pictures as an example of what some would call “luck.” In other words, some would say I was “lucky” to have gotten the pictures of the bobcats. It’s been my experience that no matter what subject matter you’re photographing, the more prepared you are, the better your chances of making better pictures. The specific preparation activities for subjects may be different, but the reason for doing them is the same.
There was a guy I heard about when I lived in San Diego who would always scoop everyone else on breaking news events. My understanding is that he was a former Sheriff’s deputy and had sources within several law enforcement agencies, EMS, etc. By developing relationships with these people, he received better information than the rest of the news community. This allowed him to find out about events and get to them faster than anyone else, which in turn helped him produce better pictures. In addition to building these relationships it’s likely he was constantly monitoring the Police and emergency service radio frequencies with a scanner.
For me, it’s the same for wildlife pictures. I prepare myself for shoots by doing research on my subjects, research on the locations I visit and develop sources just as I would as a journalist. It’s not a guarantee that I’ll get what I want every time, but it sure increases my chances of success.
In other words, it’s like we make our own success. To put it another way, if “luck” is such a huge factor in producing good pictures, at what point are we responsible for what we capture?
As an example, I would say that most people in this forum would agree that Beth is a very talented photographer who regularly posts strong images from many different genres. Is it due to luck that she’s able to do this so consistently? Although she admits there is SOME luck involved, I’d argue that her success is largely due to preparation, hard work and persistence.
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June 21, 2024 at 12:49 pm #526597
Federico AlegriaParticipant- https://www.instagram.com/federico.alegria/
- Allows Edits: Yes
@federicoalegria- Posts:2743
Allows Edits? Yes@kwongphotography
mate, from your high-quality imagery, i would guess you’re thinking this as the professional photographer you are, but what about us the amateurs?we carry our cameras as part of something we are passionate about, and might not purposelessly be looking for scenes to capture. sometimes one encounters with moments which require skill to be captured. that has nothing to do with luck, it has to do with our photographic training and capabilities for anticipating light’s behaviour. but witnessing something absolutely unexpected, is what i understand as luck.
but who am i to feel greater than chance and uncertainty? as the pragmatic academic i am, such instances deserve large credit. personally, 5% is my cut, the rest is independent from my actions and come from a “complex multitude of deeply interwoven threads; biological, economic and social forces that are not so easily unravelled”¹.
sorry for making you overthink this so much 😅, sorry for miss-reading the things outside of the frame, i tried to be in the place of an accident witness (as your imagery visually suggested) and just felt lucky or thankful with the circumstances; that’s just how i aprehended the signs from the photograph.
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¹. Carl Sagan – Cosmos: A Personal Journey
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June 21, 2024 at 4:39 pm #526601
An interesting discussion @kwongphotography, thanks to all for sharing your thoughts on luck versus responsibility/technical skill. The bobcat photos are wonderful, and you make me realize how little I know about the secretive bobcat who lives on the nearby park.
I’m a big believer is serendipity, one of my favorite words. I love experiencing the unexpected when I’m out shooting in nature when something unplanned shows u (I like to joke and say the unintended creature are photobombing, and I don’t even notice them until I preview my shots after returning home lol). Serendipity is the gift of the photography gods.
For me discipline matters. I believe it’s my job to show up with my camera. Who knows what unexpected thing will unfold and take on a life of its own? Sometimes I get lucky and bring home what to me is a prize. Other times, I may miss some great shots, not because I didn’t show up, but because I didn’t yet have the skills or didn’t think to do the level of research required. A recent example is the full solar eclipse. I did the best research I knew how to do and staked out my spot armed with my camera and settings recommended by experts. When the big event came, I got of a few shots that were decent until just as the full eclipse was beginning, some clouds drifted in to totally block out my view. So I didn’t get the “full,” due to unfortunate timing and being in the right spot at the wrong time. I haunted http://www.wunderground.com minute by minute for weather updates in my location. Call it a lifetime opportunity missed! But I showed up and did the best I could do with what I had to work with at the time.
I’m thankful for digital photography with its time and date stamps that let me know when approximately to revisit something same time/date, next year. The next full solar eclipse may not show up on my schedule, and who knows what the weather will be? My aim is always to improve my skills, not always getting good luck, but always thankful when it shows up! As far as the shots I didn’t get, they are my teachers for ideally what to do or not do next time. 😀
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July 5, 2024 at 3:27 pm #526943
@martye Thanks for your kind words.
There is definitely some amount of luck involved in everything we do — even in situations such as studio work, where almost everything is controlled.
While there are never any guarantees of success, the fact that you’re actively studying the craft and art of photography and showing up with your camera will go a long way towards making good images in the future. It’s been my experience that the success we have in photography is directly related to the amount of effort we put in.
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July 3, 2024 at 1:52 am #526856
Rob Wood (Admin)Keymaster- https://instagram.com/lightstalking
- https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightstalking
- Allows Edits: Yes
@admin-2- Posts:16567
Allows Edits? YesThis conversation reminds me of that quote “If you want to be a better photographer, stand in front of more interesting stuff.”
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July 3, 2024 at 2:51 pm #526872
Funny you should say that Rob. It reminds me of the words of the famous Canadian hockey player Wayne Gretzky….”You miss 100% of the shots you never take”.
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July 5, 2024 at 2:55 pm #526940
@federicoalegria No problem. It’s very easy to misread forum posts.
To be perfectly honest, I am an “amateur” just like you. I haven’t taken any paid jobs in years and all of my recent work comes from self-assigned projects which I haven’t make any money from. The term “professional photographer” is just a reference to the fact someone is PAID for their work, and doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with skill level. I’ve known many “amateur” photographers who consistently create stronger images than full-time “professional” photographers.
The only difference between me and most of the other members is that I have formal training as a photojournalist and have experience working at news organizations such as the Los Angeles Times, New York Newsday, the Kansas City Star and the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
But just to clarify, you’re making the argument that I am only 5% responsible for the pictures I make?
In other words, what you’re saying is that 95% of what goes into producing a good picture is left to random chance and/or other factors — things “independent of my actions” as you put it — and almost NONE of the preparations or effort that a person puts in has any effect?
5% is very close to zero.
In all honesty, I find that idea rather insulting, because the underlying message you’re relaying to me is that I have very little skill and that the nearly 40 years of experience, training and hard work I’ve put into my photography have had nearly ZERO impact on what I’ve produced.
Given the direction this conversation has taken, I have to ask this question: in selecting my picture as POTW, are you really honoring me or are you really putting me down? I sincerely hope it’s the former.
I used to attend a photo club that was run by a local portrait photographer. There was a group of elderly women in the club who were fond of saying, “the only reason you got that picture is you have better equipment than I do.” One of the ladies mentioned that she didn’t like getting up at dawn or going out during the evening hours. Anyone who knows anything about wildlife photography can tell you that most of the species I work with are usually only active during these times.
I think the Wayne Gretzky quote that @reyers mentioned says it all:
“You miss 100% of the shots you never take.”
I could gift these ladies all of my equipment and they STILL wouldn’t be able to produce the same pictures because they’d never be there at the right time.
Keep in mind they would still need to know WHERE to go and how to behave around these animals to make the pictures. It’s important to note that capturing these pictures also isn’t just a matter of slapping on a super-telephoto lens and making images from long distance. Most of the time, they’re the product of using super-telephoto lenses at CLOSE distance. I can say the same about many of my news pictures.
This brings me back to what I mentioned earlier: people tend to externalize their failures rather than take ownership of them.
I can’t tell anyone else how to live, but personally, I embrace my failures and learn from them. In other words, I’m successful now because I’ve failed so much in the past.
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July 5, 2024 at 3:51 pm #526945
While writing my replies and mentioning the importance and impact that preparation has in my photography, I thought of an article I read on how sports photographer Bill Frakes covers the Kentucky Derby.
Bill spends hours setting up dozens of remote cameras in preparation for the event. A lot of thought goes into camera and lens placement.
https://petapixel.com/2017/05/11/photographer-bill-frakes-used-35-cameras-shoot-kentucky-derby/
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