- June 30, 2013 at 8:14 pm #94242
Would you use a forum that was ONLY for NEGATIVE feedback?
This is for people who REALLY want to hear the cold hard truth about an image that they are trying to improve.
The rule would be that if you don’t have anything to say to improve the photograph, then you don’t say it! (My Grandmother would be very angry at me for this).
Total tough love.
- June 30, 2013 at 10:02 pm #94243GregorioParticipant
It might attract a lot of masochists.
- July 1, 2013 at 1:54 pm #94300Karen AmendolaParticipant
I would most certainly use that type of forum. I want to take my photography to the next level, and since I am not taking classes anywhere, I can never tell if I have a passing grade. And to make your grandmother happy, you can end each negative comment with a smiley face. 🙂
- July 2, 2013 at 2:34 am #94322StewartParticipant
- July 2, 2013 at 6:28 am #94328Richard WoodParticipant
- July 3, 2013 at 10:06 am #94423
- July 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm #94535
Hmm… maybe you guys are too naturally nice 😉
- July 8, 2013 at 11:59 pm #95056StewartParticipant
I can equalize that no probs Bob! I have a skeleton key to Toms dungen and a spare bottle of Scotch for us each! Mwuahahahaha! 😉
- July 10, 2013 at 12:11 am #95130David ChesterfieldModerator
Lets give it a go. I’ll post one now!
- July 10, 2013 at 11:02 am #95148YvonneParticipant
Ohhh ohhh wait, let me get my swim fins on! (and sharpen my teeth)
all kidding aside, it does sound interesting
- July 10, 2013 at 6:07 pm #95163
- July 10, 2013 at 7:15 pm #95179
- July 11, 2013 at 12:06 am #95188David ChesterfieldModerator
Well, from my perspective you were both polite, and offered a viewpoint I hadn’t considered, so for me it was beneficial. I had been thinking that the DOF was too shallow, and I didn’t quite get the rule of thirds right. Not the easiest of subjects to pose on Perspex for reflections like that – they tend to slither away at inopportune moments – but next time I’ll be trying for that wider shot! Thanks @karamen & @admin. Much appreciated.
All going well I should be photographing that little ones mother this weekend. Stay tuned for another shark tank post!
- July 12, 2013 at 12:22 am #95310Michael FowlerParticipant
Ok, I used this forum a bit, and it is a really good idea, ok excellent idea! HOWEVER 🙂 I think it needs to be less restrictive on good feed back, meaning that constructive feedback often contains positive information too.
So I suggest that the rule be, must contain mostly negative or corrective feed back. Just my pennies worth. If you need me I be over in the corner drinking.
- September 5, 2019 at 11:23 pm #418791
- July 12, 2013 at 4:40 pm #95465
Good to see somebody in the corner drinking @mc-fowler and I get what you’re saying. The kicker here is that directing online social feedback is kind of like herding cats. When you start diluting the guidelines from being very black and white, general online group nature takes over – and you end up with comments like on Flickr and 500px (which are both sites I love by the way – we’re just trying to do something a bit different).
But as I said, this is still very much an experiment and I don’t think we have necessarily found the final solution so it will evolve and we may well end up moving towards your opinion on this one. 🙂
Let’s see how it evolves for a bit longer.
- July 12, 2013 at 9:22 pm #95497Michael FowlerParticipant
I hear ya. I have been a moderator before– so I begrudging give up my utopian position. Too the negatives it is!
- August 18, 2019 at 4:35 pm #417111
- August 19, 2019 at 12:18 am #417127Graham HartParticipant
Very interesting topic Rob. At the moment any critiques posted are pretty much on a blank canvas which leaves the content of the critique up to the ‘authorship’ skills of the critic. The term ‘negative feedback’ kind of sounds harsh too when we may simply wish to point out an area or issue that could perhaps be reviewed in a different light.
In order to help provide any critique in the ST then, I wonder if the ST ‘reply’ windows could be formatted such that there are specific headings under which the responder can choose to comment or not? By way of example;
- General Comments….
- Positive Feedback…
- What I Would Do Different…
With a specific area for suggestions to improve or change an image, people may feel more comfortable submitting a comment about what they think hasn’t worked so well? There are technical aspects and creative aspects to consider when providing critiques and I think the term ‘negative’ doesn’t necessarily apply to both areas.
So, rather than have a separate forum JUST for negative critique, why not format all ST critiques to allow a choice to do so or not. This may also allow newbies who are reticent to offer any critique at all to offer small suggestions until such time as they gain more confidence. (Mind you, it didn’t take me long to don the beret and cravat and wax lyrical in the ST and I still don’t know what half the buttons on my camera are for 🙂 )
- August 19, 2019 at 3:34 am #417155
It a good question. My answer is NO. And why?:
1.Every photographer has a stage he can’t see anything concerning good and bad issues of his image. He simply doesn’t see it. He needs to train his own eyes, his ability to see bad AND good. To do it you definitely need both – negative and positive feedback. So don’t limit feedback to negative only.
My own story to demonstrate the problem: I luckily made a photo near perfection. I didn’t know its perfect and put it to SharkTank. Feedback was positive only. If I got no feedback (because it would break rules) it’d put me into despair and wondering “is it bad? why no feedback at all?….”
2.Splitting CC forum into two is a complication. What forum should I post images? Expecially less experienced photographers may have a problem to choose the right one (see point 1.). And making a CC needs to check 2 forums, another complication.
3.High quality constructive criticism forums are very very rare. I went through many photography forums including FB groups. And its terrible. Most of the photographers have ego as big as Everest and they’re hunting for likes only. If you accidentaly find some better forum the quality of CC isn’t great (people usually don’t like to mess with images of others and give them really constructive feedback, they fall to simple rules or shallow opinions). BUT The Shark Tank is exceptional (at least I haven’t found something other like ST yet)!!! The quality of CC is very high. (I was excited by feedback I got for my last image “Alone” – this was unbelievable). Please, don’t spoil it by any hard limitations, splitting of CC forum into two or so.
Anyway I don’t think ST has few negative feedback. Most of the ST feedback is negative and very constructive. So I definitely don’t feel any need for other forum.
However some improvements could be done: I like Grahams idea of preformatted canvas.
- August 19, 2019 at 4:01 am #417158
Guys, you’re 6 years too late. Think this got bumped. This question is what lead to the Shark Tank becoming a thing.
- August 19, 2019 at 10:16 am #417182John ThompsonModerator
I think the ST is one of the main elements that makes LS great. It helped me when my shots were crap and showed me why. I now know subjectivity with my own work and I think what I produce is good. I have the ST to thank for that. I almost quit photography but commenters at the time gave me reasons to continue based on what they saw. So I did. Recently a very good digital artist, Blake Rudis, commented on my photograghy and his only negative comment was that I spend to much time shooting the same subject. I knew that! The reasons are financial and health. Red Rock is close so I can get there without going thru to much petrol.
Praise the ST!!!
- August 20, 2019 at 12:55 am #417267
- August 20, 2019 at 5:09 am #417275MistyisleParticipant
What a great thing the Shark Tank is! Apart from Iyengar yoga and another similar site to LS, it is one of the things keeping me sane. Nevertheless, there are times when users produce something so good, that it cannot be improved. Off the top of my head, I think of some of Valery’s still lifes and also Rob’s recent photo of the bird. If we say nothing, because there is nothing to be critical about, then the person concerned could draw the wrong conclusions. We do need feedback in some way, otherwise, we may think that people don’t care to comment.
- This reply was modified 3 months ago by Mistyisle.
- August 20, 2019 at 6:37 am #417280JeffreyParticipant
I’m new here and wondering, where’s the “tank”
I’d like to submit images and CC others
I’m a photography judge in the central NJ area for NJFCC
- August 20, 2019 at 7:03 am #417284
- August 22, 2019 at 12:28 pm #417512Gary ZerbstParticipant
This tough love thing would be getting back to the shark tanks roots and what drew me to the forum in he first place, But criticism should be ameliorated with a little bit about what the photog has done right. The comments in the critiques were getting a bit personally snarky. The reaction to that was an instruction to be nicer. The result has been to remove the criticism and leave the “one word superlative” type comments (sometimes expesssed in paragraphs) as the only toothless pablum remaining. As a result my visits to the tank declined and my submissions ceased. I don’t know how, as moderator, you would encourage the meaningful criticism while simultaneously eliminating the snarky comments. Perhaps require that the critiques say nothing about the photographer? AND Perhaps emphasize that all critiques are only one person’s opinion. Perhaps require that all critiques are about ways to improve the photo that was submitted.
- August 25, 2019 at 7:39 pm #417726
pretty well what the ST was about……………………personally I mostly post here for full on comments of both persuasions…….while taking the flak also enjoy the odd note of some form of confirmation…………..changing to full on abuse has it,s merits………………………………hey tis your domain and will work within your rules.
rules are good for lots/a few reasons……………..i like following umm rules,gives me structure 🙂
- August 28, 2019 at 3:51 pm #418086Steve WalkerParticipant
Ways a photograph MIGHT have been better constitutes the roots for this forum. MIGHT is important to avoid the chest thumping mentality critique sites are sometimes prone to. For me, specific positive comments are equally helpful. Something done well is too easily missed. What was done well? I recall a comment received years ago that I should study an image I posted and try to emulate it. I had no idea what to try to emulate! Also, comments go to an audience beyond the poster. I learn as much or more from comments on others photos as my own— perhaps more. Frequently, the owner of the image knows what is done well and doesn’t need to be told. The rest of us, however, don’t always know what made the image good and specific positives can be helpful in helping us to identify those elements. The key is SPECIFIC, for both negatives and positives.
- August 30, 2019 at 7:41 pm #418243
ummm the ST was only for negative……………..sorta hardcore back in the day……….but happy………….always keep close to well happy! 🙂
- September 2, 2019 at 11:19 pm #418540VeronikaParticipant
Interesting to find this thread has been resurrected! I followed and partook and learned from ST for a while in the early days, then I wandered away, and when I came back recently I was disappointed to find it was infused with the fluff I didn’t like on all the other sites. Fortunately it retains a major element of that honesty (even if it gets a bit sharp at times) that’s hard to find. Phew! If you’re looking only for high fives and kudos there are plenty of other places to get that. ST was/is still a good place for constructive criticism input; it doesn’t mean you have to believe/heed all of it. This is the internet after all.
- September 6, 2019 at 8:19 pm #418881
Yeah Veronika says it well……………got a bit fluffy but not as bad as other parts of this forum………………only negative is only negative…………..honest is honest………..love it for that! 🙂
- September 7, 2019 at 12:14 am #418909Robert AppleModerator
” The rule would be that if you don’t have anything to say to improve the photograph, then you don’t say it! ”
Does that include “If that were on my memory card ,I would delete it” even if you honestly feel that would be an improvement ?
- September 7, 2019 at 4:40 am #418913
@Veronika: I don’t see any problem here… So I don’t understand your attitude. Could you be more specific concerning “fluff” please? I went through many many criticism sites and all are much much worse than ST. The difference is huge !
- September 12, 2019 at 5:31 pm #419317
- September 14, 2019 at 5:09 am #419385
Not everyone can live on salt along, like you Falxy. lol
- September 20, 2019 at 7:05 pm #419948
ah and tequila plus lime……………as said ad nauseam ……………..you lot put up with me
happy days!! 🙂
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